Guest: Du Yu, head of Wanxiang Blockchain Laboratory

Binance Co-CEO He Yi

Du Yu: Hello everyone! I am Du Yu from Wanxiang Blockchain Lab. Today, the first sister also felt everyone’s enthusiasm. There is no need to introduce First Sister. First Sister, please say hello to everyone.

He Yi: First of all, thank you very much for coming to Hong Kong to see me. In fact, I am also here to see you. I am very happy to see you here. Hello everyone! I am Xiao He, Binance’s “Chief Customer Service”. Thank you all!

Du Yu: It is an honor to invite Sister Yi to the event this time. I also had a conversation with you on this stage last year. You were online at that time. It is a great honor to invite you to the event today.

This year has passed, and a lot of interesting things have actually happened in the entire industry, especially the impact or opportunities of AI on the entire industry. I think it is a singular point where diversification converges. I find it particularly interesting to have a conversation with you here.

I think in this complicated cycle, I saw a lot of people asking you a lot of specific questions in the AMA yesterday, and today I want to talk to you more about your vision for the entire industry. Because there are people here from various fields, including traditional finance and entrepreneurship, and I heard that there are many students who flew here specifically to listen to your speech. In the changing environment of the market in the past six months, where are your personal interests? What’s a new change in your schedule, or something you think about a lot, that excites you, or even makes you feel a sense of urgency?

He Yi: I mentioned AI just now. My current life and time allocation are roughly divided into three modules:

First, the approaching singularity of AI is indeed a moment that no one can ignore. It is really a moment in human history. Therefore, I spend a lot of time thinking about the changes in the entire world that may be brought about between AI and the blockchain industry, between AI and finance, and what the future financial form will be. That means I have to think about what Binance’s products will be like and what Binance’s services will be like in the next ten years.

Second, I think I spend a lot of time thinking about organization and talent, because many times we say that in the early days of a company, it may rely on founders, co-founders or personal strengths to drive the company's growth. But when the company reaches a certain scale, it is actually organizational effectiveness. How to make the organization support itself and grow on its own, this is something I have been spending time thinking about and debugging.

Third, people often talk about the further integration between Crypto and traditional finance, because at this special moment, we will see that both the United States and Hong Kong governments have very, very friendly promotions for the entire blockchain industry. So I think we may see that the entire industry will undergo earth-shaking changes in the future. Many times when the singularity comes, when the moment comes, we are actually unaware of it. But it may happen on a day when we are eating, drinking, eating and sleeping, but the changes it will bring to our lives and impact may be that in the future, all foreign exchange in the world will occur on the blockchain, and it may no longer be the SWIFT system of the past. Maybe we will see that in the future, all asset transactions will no longer be limited to a few hours, and may be global 24 hours a day like the currency circle.

So we will see that the entire world is entering a state of "push back" at a very high speed.

Du Yu: You just described a very exciting future. Sometimes when discussing the future, it seems to be three, five, or ten years from now. But this year it really feels different. I think the exponential turning point is right there, and it may happen today or tomorrow. I think many people here may have this sense of urgency. Follow what Sister Yi just said about what will happen from AI to the future of finance, and further dive in to discuss some interesting things.

Let’s start with AI. AI organization is very important, especially for a company like Binance, which is about to be ten years old. You may have seen many technology companies laying off employees recently, but the stock price did not drop after the layoffs, not because of poor performance, but because of the improvement of the organization. One-person companies are even popular recently, but I personally think that one-person companies are a bit exaggerated or have not reached that point. But now companies with less than three, five or ten people can do what companies with dozens or hundreds of people can do. This is certain, and this thing is already happening.

AI is rewriting everything, how has AI changed your personal thinking and decision-making, and then the entire Binance platform, and even multinationals. I think Binance has more challenges than many other large companies, because you are a very global company, and your customers are not many companies that are more global or more distributed than you. What opportunities and challenges does AI bring to you?

He Yi: First of all, Binance does not plan to lay off employees on a large scale to reduce costs and increase efficiency like most technology companies. For us, AI is actually a way to make strong people stronger. For example, in the past, many people may think that a programmer writing code may have innovative structural thinking, but he may be limited when writing code. But when writing code with AI today is very smooth and mature, it can actually improve performance by 10 times.

I found a very interesting thing. We once discovered that an employee was working multiple jobs. It was because AI wrote code that his efficiency improved a lot. At this time, he will feel that the job is easy to handle, so I will take another job. Of course, he will be fired in the end.

The overall thinking is to further improve the output and innovation capabilities of the entire organization, rather than just pursuing cost reduction and efficiency improvement on the existing scale. This year I proposed an idea that others may think is a bit crazy. We said in the past that we would pursue 1 billion users, but this year I told everyone that we should pursue 3 billion users, because we now have 300 million users. What does it mean to become a company with 3 billion users? It means that Binance is not just an exchange, Binance is a global financial infrastructure. It means that our services should be for ordinary people, for the public, for everyone. His services may be day-by-day payments, his daily financial management, and every detail of his daily life. This will push back and I want employees to do more innovation and experimentation.

While the business continues to expand its boundaries, their infrastructure must be stable enough, because I have also received complaints from many friends that our products can be made smoother, so I have spent a lot of time this year optimizing the product. Give me a few more months, and I will further make it better.

The second point is the impact of AI on us. I think the bigger impact is that in the past, when we understood AI, we thought it was actually a child with very high ambitions. However, if you have younger children at home, you will find that children sometimes talk nonsense. I don’t know if you have seen the movie "A Little Red Flower", filmed by Zhang Yuan. Kindergarten children will say that the teacher is a monster. You will find that AI is very similar to young children with high IQs. It may not have structural logic, and its memory may be discontinuous. In this logic, we find that there is a huge leap. The AI ​​in the last cycle (2025) is actually a high-IQ brain. But in just a few months today, I feel that AI has grown its own hands.

For example, the lobster, which was popular some time ago, including these current skills, has been equipped with most of the large head models. This means that AI is no longer just a concept, but has truly begun to enter everyone's life. Of course, perhaps the most obvious thing is to write code. Why write code? The essence is that programmers are currently the most profitable group of people in the world. When everyone talks about how to use AI, they should first replace the most expensive group of people.

So I think that in the longer future, today’s work will be a bit like the workers in the candle factory in the past, but electricity has already come, and electric light has come. It may bring us a huge impact and thinking not only about the old paradigm, but when new technological changes come, as an individual, as a company, what kind of responsibilities do you bear in the entire society and the entire organization. But I think this is not unusual for individual companies.

If you look back at the personal IP of the Internet celebrity era, for example, the former anchor Li Jiaqi can also achieve hundreds of millions of dollars individually, which is much larger than many companies. But I think the more important thing to think about is what part of the responsibility you bear for the public in the entire society and the entire organization.

Du Yu: You mentioned changing from 300 million users to 3 billion users. In fact, when I was preparing questions before, including when you said it, my opinion was that you were too conservative. Why? With the development of AI, we also feel that Crypto itself is not for humans, but for AI. Many people say that whether you will be a rich person in the future depends on how many robots you have, how much AI you have, and how much computing power you can mobilize. So have you considered the product design of Binance, not just Binance, but the entire Web3 industry? Entrepreneurs present here have product designs that are oriented to AI users and are oriented to AI. Agent, at this time, users are not a problem of 300 million or 3 billion, but maybe tens of billions of users. The architecture at that time was different, and the opportunities brought to Web3 were different. At this point in time, I feel as if all the traffic and capital have been attracted by AI. But what still excites me is the combination of AI and Web3, combined with robots and robot dogs. This is the next generation of the Internet that is really exciting. What do you think of this trend?

He Yi: I think AI has entered two different branches at present. Of course, there are conflicts and discussions. For example, large language models and then Web Coding are one route. Physical AI has actually made many breakthroughs. If we must look at the future, you don’t have to think of Crypto as Crypto, you should think of it as a more efficient and lower-cost financial system. Based on such an optimized structure, how can AI serve the public more efficiently?

There was a discussion on Twitter some time ago. People said that if you look at Western AI, Anthropic and OpenAI make short videos of each other to satirize each other, while China’s AI war is about giving milk tea.

This question has made me think about it for a long time. I think we should not be arrogant about technology. No matter how great or advanced the technology is, for individuals and human beings, the most important thing is how does this technology serve me and how can it help my life become better? Whether it is Doubao or Qianwen, when it can tell the old lady in rural China that the health products recommended to you by third parties are fake and you should not buy them, I think this is the value and significance that technology brings to human beings. When a lonely elderly person in rural areas can have someone to chat with him every day through Doubao, I think this is the meaning that technology brings to mankind. No matter where human beings go, they still have to look back at themselves as human beings and pity the green grass and trees.

Du Yu: Especially people with technical backgrounds like us, sometimes have the instinct to show off their skills. Including many entrepreneurial company projects in Web3, he may think that this is a very cool thing, a very cool product, and a very cool technology, but in the end he finds that there are no users, and he may even say that what he serves may be such a very narrow small user circle. I keep saying that you are "customer service" and "number one customer service", but in fact you are also the number one product manager. It is very important to have an insight into human nature. The advancement of all technologies, including the advancement of financial tools, is to serve better human beings. Ultimately, we are not here to serve robots. Robots also serve people, and AI is also used to serve people.

You talked about financial infrastructure earlier. I also think that the core of Web3 is financial infrastructure or the next generation of financial infrastructure. Some time ago, I saw you retweeting Binance's Twitter. There were two pie charts on the top, Crypto on the left, traditional TradFi on the right, and the intersection in the middle was Binance. I think when I first came into contact with Binance in 2017, I thought this name was really good. I don't know how you came up with this name at the time. This paragraph was also written in "Binance Life", but it seemed to be relatively simple. In my understanding, Finance is easy to understand, it is the existing finance, but B may be Bitcoin, it may be the entire digital world. In such an intersection process or overlapping area, why do you think Binance is overlapping and iterating? What do you think Binance wants to express in the financial system in the future?

He Yi: In 2014, the slogan was "Down with Wall Street." Today, when the scale of your industry continues to expand, there are more and more institutional users, and more and more traditional finance are beginning to embrace Crypto, you will find that this is actually a process of integration. In the process of integration, some countries and some regulators are at the forefront. He will say that I understand what it is and I understand its significance to the financial system. Today we may let some people try and innovate first. Regardless of whether companies such as Futu and Tiger in Hong Kong have begun to own stock assets and Crypto assets at the same time, Robinhood in the United States also has a lot of Crypto assets and traditional stock assets.

Binance may not only want to tie itself to Crypto or so-called stock assets, we have already launched some commodities some time ago, including crude oil, gold, silver, etc. The commodity trading volume of our platform has accounted for a very high proportion in the traditional scale. Maybe they will now feel that we are a threat, and maybe they will also shout "Down with Crypto".

But the longer-term future is that when you want to become a financial infrastructure, you don't have to worry too much about whether you are a Crypto or a Trade File, because when we label ourselves, labeling is a process of drawing the ground. When you break through the boundaries and return to the starting point, it is what you have done for financial freedom in the world, what you have done for financial equality, and whether you have made the lives of more ordinary people better. This is the starting point of very first principles.

Du Yu: You said earlier that the starting point of first principles is very good and important, but sometimes it can be idealistic. Because we always have to compromise with reality and supervision when we do it. The question I want to ask can be from two perspectives. First, many mainstream financial institutions in traditional finance are embracing Crypto today, including last week when Hong Kong issued two stablecoin licenses, which are also held by mainstream financial institutions and banks. But sometimes we have doubts. Mainstream financial institutions are already doing well enough. For them, it is just a small innovation, which may or may not succeed. Even if they make stablecoins, it will have an impact on their revenue, because they have invested, and their investment may not be successful.

Another perspective, from the perspective of a barbarian Outsider, a non-internal Crypto native of the Internet. At first, everyone thought that when it comes to the ups and downs of Bitcoin and Crypto, I joined Wanxiang Blockchain in 2015. For more than ten years, I always felt that every three or four years, I was embarrassed to tell my friends that I worked in blockchain, because many times this industry is stigmatized. When I talk about blockchain, I also say that we are in the technology field, and it will be considered as currency speculation or something like that, and it will give you a lot of labels. Things have gotten a lot better in the past few years. When talking about Bitcion, some bad words are associated with it.

But with the development over the years, Crypto native companies are also accepting supervision and becoming mainstream. From your point of view, which path does Binance prefer? Or is it that Binance originally emerged from Crypto native and it is difficult to take that path? How do you think it can achieve the vision of first principles step by step and more realistically?

He Yi: The Internet has gone through the same path we are on today. When the entire Internet first emerged in Silicon Valley, there was a very strong "hippie culture." At that time, many people also thought that the people who were engaged in the Internet and technology were geeks and weirdos. But in that era, the Internet had branched out to a great extent. Those who went to the left became the dark web, which was absolutely free; those who went to the right became Google and Amazon, becoming ordinary commercial companies that serve more people around the world.

If you ask me where Binance will go, we will definitely move towards a commercial company that serves the public. But at the same time, when we serve the public, technological innovation is still very important. Whether it is blockchain technology or AI technology, many people will think that the stigma and public opinion in the currency circle are normal, because if everyone can understand new things, and if there is no controversy, how can there be so many hardships, challenges, and innovations? If I look back at when we were kids and went to Internet cafes, my mother would have wanted to break my legs.

When we see today that blockchain is being embraced by Wall Street and traditional finance in a 180-degree turn, it just shows that this industry has become more and more mature, and the early dividends of this industry have become less and less. When the early dividends become smaller, people will complain more. For example, why do you think Bitcoin doesn’t continue to fall? This way I can't buy the bottom. Why doesn’t Bitcoin keep rising? That's because the industry's early dividend period has passed. When the industry's early dividend period has passed, it has entered the so-called maturity period. If you have to cross the gap, it means that all products are truly valuable and have implementation.

I have great respect for many professional technical experts in the industry, but I often ask them a question, what is your technology used for? What problems can it be used to solve? Is there anyone willing to pay for it? I remember we discussed this topic in the same scene last year, and the essence of business is to maintain a consistent understanding. But I think there is no end to technological innovation and continuous iteration.

Du Yu: In the past two years, what people in the industry are increasingly talking about is no longer technology, and even technology is a bottleneck to a certain extent. Technology is currently sufficient for most businesses. What we need to study more at this time is existing technology. There are many technologies for Layer 1 and Layer 2 on Web3. How to use it for everyone, how to change everyone's lives, and how to build applications bit by bit is very important at this time. You also mentioned that this industry has slowly entered the mainstream, whether it is this year's Hong Kong Web3 Festival, or what we have insisted on doing in the past few years is to attract more mainstream industries, so that mainstream industries can use Web3 and Crypto as good tools to help mainstream industries go further. Just like the Internet changed almost all industries back then, I believe that Web3 as a new financial infrastructure will also greatly improve all existing business models.

Finally, I still have some time. I want to talk about some of the things mentioned in the recent "Binance Life" book. CZ's new book allows more people to understand his journey, especially from the time he entered the circle to the present. His growth history is the growth history of Binance, and even more so the entire industry. He wrote many stories in the book about his growth history. Today we also want to hear your perspective. You can summarize it from another perspective, or push the time forward ten or twenty years later. When you recall what happened in these ten years, how would you tell this story? A very important entrepreneurial journey.

He Yi: If you go back to 2017, if you look at my circle of friends, you will find that from 2017 to now, I have been saying "We are not starting a business, we are making history." Therefore, no matter it is the past, present, or future, what we are really doing is how to use technology to change the future and how to create history. In the process of history, every path you take will naturally not be a straight line or flat. Whether it is the so-called stigmatization of the currency circle, those who say "you guys are stinky currency speculators", or the public's recognition of technological innovation in the process, it is all part of your responsibility. You cannot simply understand that life is moving forward or smooth sailing. Here, if you want to choose to be the one who makes history, then you also need to bear the responsibility of history. This may be how I describe Binance in the next ten years, or "We are not starting a business, we are making history."

Our slogan has actually never changed. It has always been "Exchange The World", not the world's largest cryptocurrency trading platform.

When you look at the longer history, you will find that what we are discussing today is the so-called AI siphoning Crypto, or the impact of AI on Crypto. In fact, it is normal, because the impact of AI is not only an impact on Web3, not only an impact on Crypto, this impact is everywhere and will inevitably happen. However, the impact and changes of Web3 on the entire finance are real. Many people will say that you guys are trying to do Web3, but in the end it is still trading or finance. Isn’t finance a big industry? If it can improve the efficiency of all finance even just a little bit, it will be a great innovation. There is no need to pursue the so-called one-step approach. Just do a little bit every day.

Du Yu: Original intention is very important. When making history, some people go astray, and they will find that not many people can really persist in this industry for more than ten years. In the book "Binance Life", I also saw many high-frequency words. One media specifically listed high-frequency words, such as customers, integrity, etc. It is really about doing something well from the heart, which runs through the entire book. As long as your original intention is correct and you insist on doing the right thing, it may be difficult but it is the right thing. After five, ten or even longer years, you will definitely have great achievements.

He Yi: When it is difficult but correct, many times people will say that what you say sounds so good, you are not saints, and we are certainly not saints, but people want win win. What you have to do is to make your platform bigger and have more users. On this basis, the industry will become bigger, and the rising tide lifts all boats. We are at the top of the industry, and naturally you will become a company with more commercial value and public value. I don’t believe in that kind of pure zero-sum game. I believe that when what you do is of value to society, someone pays for you, and someone is willing to pay for you, it is enough for you to earn the money you deserve. This process must be an upward spiral, accompanied by controversy and pain, but only a handful of people will say after gaining financial freedom, I want to see how far they can go.

Du Yu: Many of you here today are already Web3 practitioners, and there is a very interesting phenomenon today. Among the guests, there are many cross-borders. Many people have heard of Web3, but have never entered this industry. We will find many people from mainstream and traditional industries. For these guests who have just come into contact, just want to enter, or are interested in Web3, if you want to say something that only those who have truly experienced it will know, what would you say to them? What advice would you give everyone?

He Yi: Let’s get some useful information. Many friends entered the currency circle because someone told them that this currency has increased 10 times. You should buy it quickly. Traditional Buffett's value investment theory is really suitable for any industry. If you don't understand the industry, just buy the top assets. You don't have to have so many choices. You only need to choose some top assets as a starting point for you to understand the industry.

I often say that Bitcoin is the largest decentralized asset and BNB is the largest centralized asset. Under this logic, a small amount can be allocated. But there are also many friends who say that I came to the currency circle just to "give it a try and turn a bicycle into a motorcycle." Then you must control the risk. I often say that you should not be afraid, but you must understand whether the decision you make is a revolving door or a one-way door. The revolving door is that after you make a choice, even if you fail, you can still go back to the starting point and either gain or learn. But some decisions may be gone after you make them. If there is no way back, you should be cautious.

For example, I don’t really recommend the house-selling activity like CV.

Du Yu: The best way to understand an industry or a company is to buy its shares. I would also tell my friends around me that you can try it a little bit and you will know what is going on after you try it yourself.

He Yi: Configure less, do more research, and start less.

Du Yu: The same is true for AI. You need to use it first before talking about it. It is not that advanced.

He Yi: One is called execution and the other is cognition. Just iterate on cognition during your execution, but you must understand whether your investment cost is controllable.

Du Yu: Due to time constraints, thank you Sister Yi. We will communicate with you here first. We look forward to having a more interesting and in-depth discussion with Sister Yi on the same stage next year. Thank you Sister Yi, thank you all!

He Yi: Thank you everyone!